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of people on this thing in order to avoid any possibility

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of a stalemate. But the experience, the public relations

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experience in that one Denver instance in which the lay-

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men do outnumber the lawyers has been good. And I

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repeat, 1 feel strongly that this is an important place

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for the non-lawyer to serve. The courts are not a

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place primarily for lawyers and judges to hold forth,

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any more than schools are for principals and hospitals

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are for doctors and nurses. Hospitals are for patients,

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schools are for the pupils, courts are for the litigants,

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the businessmen and the citizens who appear. And the

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laymen on the nominating commission gives them a chance

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to have their say in the people who preside over these

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courts. And 1 think that is good, and I think that it

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is proper.

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MRS. BOTHE: We ought to have at least one

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convicted criminal.

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THE CHAIRMAN: Well, are you saying then that,

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for example, in the seven-man commission, that there

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should be at least three laymen, three lawyers with the

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judge as the chairman of the nominating committee?