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use, can you give us an estimate of the
anticipated cost, say within the first five
years of operation of this new four-tier
system?
DELEGATE MUDD: The only answer
I can give is the one Delegate Bradshaw
gave a few moments ago, that the informa-
tion he has now so far assembled shows it
would cost approximately $250,000 more
per year than the present cost to admin-
ister the court system.
THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate Bradshaw,
can you respond further to the question?
DELEGATE BRADSHAW: Yes, Mr.
Chairman.
In further response to the question, the
figures we have developed from Dr. Cooper's
office show that so far as the localities are
concerned there will be shifted from the
local taxpayers, to the state taxpayers each
year to support the judicial system, includ-
ing the cost of compensating the localities
for existing courthouses and other court-
related physical facilities, $11,063,267 a
year. That does not mean it is costing that
much more. It simply means that figure is
being shifted from localities to the state
government.
By way of further clarification of what
was said before, in addition to that figur^
is the figure of $250.000 which Dr. Cooper
estimated will be the additional expense
involved in upgrading our judicial system
and in putting it on a fulltime basis
throughout the state at all levels.
THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate Rybczyn-
ski.
DELEGATE RYBCZYNSKI: May I ask
Delegate Bradshaw another question?
DELEGATE BRADSHAW: Yes, sir.
DELEGATE RYBCZYNSKI: Does this
include the full time salaries, comparable
to those in Baltimore City, for instance, at
$21,500 for district judges? Does it include
those kinds of salaries? Does it include the
pension system? Does it include hiring of
bailiffs, which part-time judges do not now
have? Does it include all those kinds of
things?
THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate Bradshaw.
DELEGATE BRADSHAW: Yes, it does-
include all those items that you have men-
tioned; but, because, as Dr. Cooper says
in his letter of transmittal of that data, it
is difficult and was impossible within the
limitations of time imposed on him to get
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these figures on an absolutely accurate
basis. What he did was take the cost of
operating the judicial system for Baltimore
City and the four major urban counties
which comprise eighty per cent of the
judicial business of the state and eighty
per cent of the population, and use that as
a norm and project these figures for the
remaining twenty per cent of the popula-
tion. He also took into account certain other
factors, such as distance involved in, say,
Garrett County, and in some areas of the
Eastern Shore where he made some allow-
ance for perhaps additional judges to elimi-
nate some of the travel time otherwise
which would have been involved.
THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate Rybczyn-
ski.
DELEGATE RYBCZYNSKI: Delegate
Bradshaw, so you could help our thinking
and arguments as they develop over the
next few days, could you tell us now the
approximate salary of a part-time magis-
trate in the various counties? Do not go
down all twenty-three, but an average.
THE CHAIRMAN: You mean the pres-
ent salary?
DELEGATE RYBCZYNSKI: Yes, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate Bradshaw.
DELEGATE BRADSHAW: I do not
have that. We have had testimony before
our Committee which shows that it ranges
all the way from $300 a year to $2700 or
$2800 a year.
THE CHAIRMAN: The Chair would
like to observe that that information was
furnished in considerable detail in a report
of the Bar Association Committee as of
about two years ago which I think was
made available to every delegate. If you
do not have it, it would be available in the
Convention library.
Delegate Rybczynski.
DELEGATE RYBCZYNSKI: Chairman
Mudd, on several occasions during your ad-
dress you used the word "chaotic." You re-
ferred to one magistrate. Are you sug-
gesting that this is a prevalent situation
throughout the State of Maryland, that the
word "chaotic" applies throughout the
State?
DELEGATE MUDD: I adopted the word
from witnesses before our Committee. I
have no personal knowledge of the situa-
tion in Baltimore City. That is one I hap-
pened to see in the paper. There was testi-
mony before our Committee of justice being
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