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However, as Delegate Willoner has pointed
out, the status of the law is constantly
changing.
THE CHAIRMAN: For what purpose
does Delegate Pullen rise?
DELEGATE PULLEN: Mr. Chairman, I
apologize to you and the Convention. In ex-
plaining the school law to a friend of mine
nearby I thought I was voting on Amend-
ment No. 10 instead of 11. I would not
bother you except I feel so keenly that this
amendment is good, and respectfully sug-
gest that my vote be changed.
I would not mind being one of a vote of
two against a hundred, but in this case, I
would like to have it changed.
THE CHAIRMAN: Which vote?
DELEGATE PULLEN: Confronted with,
examination under oath.
THE CHAIRMAN: Which way did you
vote?
DELEGATE PULLEN: I voted No and I
want to vote Yes. I do not know that it
makes much difference.
THE CHAIRMAN: The Journal Clerk
will correct the record to show Delegate
Pullen voting Aye on Amendment No. 11.
Amendment No. 11 is adopted with 110
affirmative votes and 1 negative vote.
For what purpose does Delegate Mason
rise?
DELEGATE MASON: I wanted to ask
Delegate Willoner or Delegate Kiefer a
question, preferably Delegate Willoner.
THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate Willoner, do
you yield to a question?
DELEGATE WILLONER: I yield to a
question.
THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate Mason.
DELEGATE MASON: Delegate Willoner,
if I understand you correctly, you said that
you only need counsel at time of arraign-
ment. Is it not true that you need counsel
at the time of a line-up?
THE CHAIRMAN: At the time of what,
Delegate Mason?
DELEGATE MASON: A line-up.
THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate Mason, I
think you incorrectly stated Delegate Wil-
loner's statement. Delegate Willoner.
DELEGATE WILLONER: That is cor-
rect, Mr. Chairman. If you are going to use
evidence that is obtained as a result of
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line-up, you need counsel at line-up. But
again, this is to secure, I guess in that
case, due process, and a fair trial pro-
ceedings. This is not assistance of counsel
that is referred to in the Sixth Amend-
ment. This refers to the actual trial of
the case.
THE CHAIRMAN: Are there further
questions ?
(There was no response.)
Are there any further amendments to
section 5 (A), other than the amendments
which have been passed over?
Very well.
Delegate Gleason.
DELEGATE GLEASON: Mr. Chairman,
I wonder if Delegate Adkins will, in re-
gard to this last amendment yield to a
question, so that we can get just a little
bit of legislative or constitutional history?
THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate Adkins,
will you take the floor in response to a
question?
DELEGATE ADKINS: Yes, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate Gleason.
DELEGATE GLEASON: Since the
amendment that was just adopted puts after
the words "to examine under oath", the
words "or affirmation", and puts it in a
slightly different context than is in the
present Constitution, is it my understand-
ing that you intend no different meaning
from those words as they have been inter-
preted by the courts and as they will be
interpreted in the future?
Do you have a substantive difference that
you had in mind with respect to that pro-
posal?
THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate Adkins.
DELEGATE ADKINS: I intend no sub-
stantive change. The intent of the amend-
ment is to make crystal clear that the right
of cross-examination exists for all wit-
nesses presented in the trial of a pro-
ceeding.
THE CHAIRMAN: Are there any further
questions, Delegate Gleason?
DELEGATE GLEASON: I am not sure
I can ask the question. I am afraid I cannot
get a different answer.
THE CHAIRMAN: For what purpose
does Delegate Storm rise?
DELEGATE STORM: I would like, Mr.
Chairman, to state in reference to my pre-
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