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Proceedings and Debates of the 1864 Constitutional Convention
Volume 102, Volume 1, Debates 90   View pdf image (33K)
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and we go in. The majority determine
to report, and we report. Then could
they not call again for going into Commit-
tee of the Whole? I ask for this information ;
for if that should be the result of the adop-
tion of this rule, I certainly should be opposed
to it. There may be seven or nine men who
would rather bring all the proceedings of the
Convention to a dead stop than that anything
should be done in the Convention,
Mr. STIRLING. The suggestion of my friend
from Cecil (Mr. Pugh) is perfectly proper; and
in order to show that it may be necessary to
adopt the amendment I will suggest that if
it is the standing order of the day to go into
Committee of the Whole, and if the House does
go into Committee of the Whole, either with-
out a vote or upon the demaud of seven or
nine members, and if the majority vote that
the committee rise, the standing order is sat-
isfied, and the House does not go into Com-
mittee of the Whole again It is not the priv-
ilege of any one or more members to demand
that the House go into Committee of the
Whole again. But this rule, as it stands
here, has no limitation to it. It says the
House are to go into Committee of the
Whole not at a particular hour of the day, not
once only, but at any time when required by
nine members; and it may go back and forth,
consuming the time of the Convention. I
have seen it done in the House of Delegates
time and time again. I have seen the House
taken into Committee of the Whole, and taken
out again, four or five times in succession.
That cannot be done in Congress; when the
House votes that the Committee rise, it is done
for that day.
Mr. BERRY of Baltimore county. The dif-
ference between the gentleman from Balti-
more city (Mr. Stirling) and the gentleman
from Prince George's (Mr. Clarke) I think is
settled by one of the rules of the House of
" The House may, at any time, by a vote of
a majority of the members present, suspend
the rules and orders for the purpose of going
into the Committee of the Whole House on the
State of the Union."
Mr. CLARKE That does not settle the point
between the gentleman from Baltimore city and
myself, which is this, that under the standing
rule of the House, the House goes once into
Committee of the Whole; and after having
that privilege under the standing rule once,
then the majority does it under this restric-
tion that it is not under the standing order.
So that the proposition still remains that every
legislative body has the privilege of either
going by standing rule, or by some form
other than the vote of the majority, into a
Committee of the Whole.
The amendment was agreed to.
Mr. STIRLING moved to amend the last
clause of the same rule, by striking out the
words "seven members" and inserting in
place thereof the words "a majority of the
members present."
The amendment was agreed to.
Rule 22d having been read,
Mr. STIRLING moved to amend by adding :
" When a report or resolution is ordered to
be engrossed for a third reading, it shall be
actually engrossed before being read a third
time, unless a majority of the members present
shall otherwise order.
Mr. STIRLING said: I move that amend-
ment because it is known that it has long
been the custom of the Legislature of Mary-
land that when a bill is ordered to be en-
grossed for a third reading, it is not actually
engrossed, and very often it is read the third
time with the amendments merely stuck on,
written on separate pieces of paper. I think
we shall have time enough, and that it will
prevent mistakes, to have them actually copied
over again if amended. If it is deemed im-
portant to read anything a third time without
waiting for it to be actually engrossed, the
majority can dispense with the engrossment.
Unless some rule like this is adopted, I sup-
pose that it will not be considered necessary
actually to engross the reports, but it will be
omitted according to the custom in the Leg-
Mr. KENNARD suggested that the amend-
ment should be added to the 53d rule.
Mr. STIRLING withdrew the amendment.
Mr. BERRY of Baltimore county submitted
the following amendment:
Strike out all after the word "interlined,"
in the sixth line, and insert " but all amend-
ments shall, when agreed to by the commit-
tee, be duly entered by the Secretary, separ-
ate paper, noting the page and line, and,
through the chairman, be so reported to the
Convention, which report, resolution, or other
matter, shall again be open to debate and
amendment by clauses."
Mr. STIRLING. I do not see why this rule
is not made applicable to amendments at any
time. I do not see why it should be restricted
to reports in Committee of the Whole. They
should not be interlined at all. The amend-
ments should always be upon separate pieces
of paper.
Mr. CLARKE. Keeping the Journal of the
Convention, and the Journal of the Commit-
tee of the Whole, are two very different things.
When the Convention is in Committee of the
Whole; it is not then acting as a Convention.
If we have a report pending before the Con-
vention, it would be just as it was referred to
the Committee of the Whole, for the Commit-
tee of the Whole have no more right to change
that report than any other committee. This
provision is intended to keep the action of
the Committee of the Whole separate from
that in Convention, in order to keep a Journal
of proceedings in Committee of the Whole, to
be published, as provided for afterwards.
Mr. STIRLING. That is all very proper. All

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Proceedings and Debates of the 1864 Constitutional Convention
Volume 102, Volume 1, Debates 90   View pdf image (33K)
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