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thing in that vicinity, but by the same
token, they indicated that you really could
not be certain about that, but the consensus
seemed to be 50,000 to 60,000 population
per judge.
THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate Rush.
DELEGATE RUSH: Then the figures
we heard yesterday were just grabbed out
of the air, evidently?
THE CHAIRMAN: I am sorry, the
Chair did not understand your question.
DELEGATE RUSH: The figures we
heard yesterday were just reached up and
pulled out of the air?
THE CHAIRMAN: Is that a question?
DELEGATE RUSH: That is a question.
THE CHAIRMAN: What is the ques-
tion?
DELEGATE RUSH: Where did they get
the figures from?
DELEGATE JOHNSON: I do not know.
I think Delegate Bradshaw can best answer
that. I believe he indicated from the Bu-
reau of Legislative Reference, or Dr.
Cooper, I think he said.
THE CHAIRMAN: Are there any fur-
ther questions?
Delegate Hodge Smith.
DELEGATE J. H. SMITH: In view of
the Supreme Court requirement of advis-
ing criminals as to their right of counsel,
arrest procedure, et cetera, does the mi-
nority feel that these commissioners are
really court officers now?
DELEGATE JOHNSON: Court officers
now, or under the proposed system?
THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate Smith.
DELEGATE J. H. SMITH: Now, or un-
der the proposed system.
DELEGATE JOHNSON: I think they
are court officers as attorneys are officers
of the court. I think that is an analogy.
We are officers of the court. I do not know
whether or not I am — I am sure I do
not have any judicial function, but I am
considered an officer of the court as you
are, Delegate Smith, so I would think that
they would be an officer of the court in the
manner of a clerk, some type of an officer
of the court. I am using that term ex-
tremely generally.
THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate Hodge
Smith.
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DELEGATE J. H. SMITH: Then as an
officer > of the court, a clerk, do you not
think the court should have the right to
appoint him?
DELEGATE JOHNSON: If you think
the court should have the right to deter-
mine whether or not you should be a
lawyer, I think that would then be the
case. I doubt you do. The specific answer
to your question is no.
THE CHAIRMAN: Are there any fur-
ther questions?
Delegate Cicone.
DELEGATE CICONE: Delegate John-
son, to whom would these commissioners
then be responsible? You say they have
non-judicial functions, yet they are going
to operate under the rules of the court.
Would they be responsible to the legisla-
ture or to the judiciary.
DELEGATE JOHNSON: First of all,
we are saying that what is non-judicial is
the selection and appointment of the com-
missioner. We say that function is non-
judicial. We would hope that they would
come under a merit system and that they
would have an opportunity to exercise the
privileges and pleasures of their offices, and
the duties of their offices, and be dismissed
only for cause. We are appalled at the idea
that a commissioner will be, first of all, se-
lected by a district court judge, and then
"serve at his pleasure." We are opposed to
that in principle.
DELEGATE CICONE: What redress
would the judicial system have if these
commissioners are appointed and they are
not qualified? How would they be removed
from office? That could tie up the adminis-
tration of justice.
DELEGATE JOHNSON: If in fact they
do not perform their functions they may be
dismissed anyway. Any merit system em-
ployee may be dismissed if he does not
carry out his duties.
THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate Schneider.
DELEGATE SCHNEIDER: Mr. Presi-
dent, I would just like to clear up one thing
that was erroneously said on the floor
about the United States commissioners.
THE CHAIRMAN: Is this a question?
DELEGATE SCHNEIDER: Yes.
Delegate Johnson, is it not true that
United States commissioners are appointed
by the judges of the United States District
Court, and serve then in the administrative
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