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which he terminated his service. If he re-
signed, I am not sure.
DELEGATE ADKINS: This does not
make that qualification. There is no quali-
fication here for resignation. It only says,
active service has terminated, and he has
reached his sixtieth birthday. I think this
is the provision.
DELEGATE JAMES (presiding) : I
would like to pursue that same question
under this. If the man resigns before he
is sixty, is he entitled to his pension at the
age sixty?
DELEGATE HARDWICKE : The answer
to that is yes, Delegate James. With re-
gard to Delegate Adkins, yes. Is it your
question, Delegate Adkins, as to whether
or not he continues to receive allowance
for the time after he reaches sixty, but
before he reaches seventy?
DELEGATE ADKINS: My question is
whether or not he can receive the full pen-
sion that he would be entitled to by mul-
tiplying the years of service times the
annual rate for the additional ten-year
period between sixty and seventy, if he re-
signs prior to age sixty.
Normal pension plans are based on some
multiple, times years payable over the ex-
pected life of the judge. This seems to be
a different situation. A man can work for
a certain number of years, can get ten full
years of added pension by retiring at sixty
instead of seventy. I am wondering if this
is the intent of the constitutional provision.
It is stated here in the negative, but I
simply wondered if that was the intention
of the provision.
DELEGATE HARDWICKE: He gets
so many dollars multiplied by so many
years of service, Delegate Adkins, and then
there is a maximum of $23,333 placed on
that. It begins when he first has service,
and continues through that period of serv-
ice and if he continues to serve after he
reaches the age sixty, those years will
count in computing the amount of pension
which he will get when he does retire.
DELEGATE JAMES (presiding) : Any
other questions?
Delegate Bennett.
DELEGATE BENNETT: Mr. Chairman,
how did you arrive at these figures of what
the rate would be for each year of service?
DELEGATE HARDWICKE: Delegate
Bennett, it is in the present Legislative
Council bill and it is pretty consistent with
the existing law.
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DELEGATE BENNETT: Of course, this
pension scheme to my mind is no giveaway,
and in view of the conversation with Dele-
gate Gill and Delegate Koger and, further,
in view of the fact it is the largest section
of the transitional legislation, would it not
be a good idea to consider revising this and
leaving a greater measure of it to the
legislature?
DELEGATE HARDWICKE: That is al-
most what we have done because this is our
schedule of legislation. We are not equipped
to have hearings, et cetera, with regard to
what the provision should be, so we have
put in the figures of the Legislative Council
bill with the understanding the legislature
by January 1st, 1968, could put in what-
ever it wants, provided they do not run
afoul of constitutional provisions with re-
gard to lowering the amount of pension.
DELEGATE JAMES (presiding) : Dele-
gate Bennett.
DELEGATE BENNETT: I would cer-
tainly hope that you would do so because
there are many things here that I notice,
being a pensioner myself, that need some
further study.
For example, in your lowest grade court,
when you deduct the federal and state
tax, a judge will not have much incentive
to retire at a rather early age when he
might otherwise do so, so I certainly hope
that the legislature will take this in mind.
DELEGATE JAMES (presiding) : Are
there any further questions?
Delegate Rybczynski?
DELEGATE RYBCZYNSKI: Delegate
Hardwicke, I have been in and out on busi-
ness, and I got part of Delegate Gill's con-
versation with you and part of Delegate
Sherbow's. I want to be sure of the word
"spouse" in section 23.
Now, is there any doubt in your mind
whether the word "spouse" means either
husband or wife?
DELEGATE HARDWICKE: That is our
intention.
DELEGATE RYBCZYNSKI: If a lady
judge at the age of thirty-seven who has a
husband who is forty should happen to die,
does this mean that her husband at the
age of forty, fully employable, probably
making forty or fifty thousand dollars a
year, would immediately start to collect the
pension? Let's look at this thing and see
if there is anything here that would pre-
vent that.
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