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every meeting, or are they going to have to
run a notice at the beginning of each week
saying they have to meet each Monday
morning at 10:00 A.M.? Will the governor
have to give notice when he has a meeting
with his staff? It seems to me this is reach-
ing the height of absurdity. I hesitate vot-
ing on this unless I see it in some written
form because it may change the common
law rule.
Everything is a public record now except
that which the legislature says shall be
confidential. I think that is a general rule.
Now, we may be jeopardizing that rule by
an unwritten amendment. I am just wor-
ried about it.
THE PRESIDENT: Delegate Kiefer.
DELEGATE KIEFER: Mr. Chairman
and ladies and gentlemen of the Conven-
tion, this has almost gotten to the point
where it is acceptable, and I have the
same reservations that Delegate James has.
I had thought that Delegate Weidemeyer's
amendment or proposal would read some-
thing like this: "Governmental proceedings,
meetings, and records shall be open to the
public to the extent and in the manner pro-
vided by law." That is what the New York
Constitution provided, but this thing of the
prior notice worries me just as it worries
Delegate James.
If you would make that amendment, Del-
egate Weidemeyer, I would be very happy
to go along with it because I think it would
be legitimized.
THE PRESIDENT: You mean Delegate
Willoner's motion. Did you understand the
motion?
DELEGATE KIEFER: I think Delegate
James misses the entire point.
THE PRESIDENT: Did you understand
the suggestion made by Delegate Kiefer?
DELEGATE JAMES: The suggestion
was, I guess, to strike out the language,
"and prior notice of such proceedings". Is
that correct?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
DELEGATE JAMES: The only thing is
that it is "to the extent"; it meant what
notice the legislature shall set out is
required.
THE PRESIDENT: The only question
you are called upon to answer is Delegate
Kiefer's question. Would you be willing to
amend your motion so as to strike the lan-
guage in lines 8 and 9 "and prior notice
of such proceedings or meetings shall be
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provided" in accordance with Delegate
Kiefer's request? You do not have to. We
just ask you, will you?
DELEGATE JAMES: All right.
THE PRESIDENT: Does the "all right"
mean that you accept the suggestion?
Is there any objection to considering the
amendment modified to strike in lines 8 and
9 the words "and prior notice of such meet-
ings or proceedings shall be provided"?
The Chair hears none.
The amendment will be so modified.
Delegate Henderson.
DELEGATE HENDERSON: I would
like to ask Delegate Willoner if he will
reply to a question as to this phrase "as
defined by law". It seems to be a little out
of place now. "Governmental proceedings,
meetings, and records" as defined by law.
What does that mean? Does that include,
for example, any judicial proceedings? You
are not suggesting that the jury would not
have a right to retire and consider its ver-
dict without having the press present, are
you?
DELEGATE WILLONER: Obviously,
the Judge did not hear me explain this
before when it was in the area of a pre-
sumption. It would not even apply to that
situation, Judge, and you know better. That
language I thought would be stricken along
with it because that language would have
nothing to modify when you have "to the
extent and manner as prescribed by law".
It would be entirely up to the legislature
or the local governmental body to decide
what they shall open and what they shall
not open.
THE PRESIDENT: The Chair did not
understand that. Your modification also
goes to striking out of line 7 the words "as
defined by law"?
DELEGATE WILLONER: That would
be no longer necessary then. There would
not be any doubt.
THE PRESIDENT: Is that what you
desire to do?
DELEGATE WILLONER: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well. The
words "as defined by law" are no longer
in the amendment. It now reads: "Govern-
mental proceedings, meetings, and records
shall be open to the people to the extent
and in the manner prescribed by law".
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