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what happened to the New York Constitu-
tion. Just let me tell you what the New
York provision was, and maybe you will see
the great difference between what is now
proposed and what the New York Constitu-
tion proposed. Delegate Winslow picked it
up right away. He said this thing is back-
wards. Here is what the New York Consti-
tution said: "Records of the state and local
governments, public authorities and other
public corporations and all departments,
agencies and instrumentalities thereof, in-
cluding those created pursuant to an agree-
ment or compact with another state or
foreign power, shall be public records open
to inspection to the extent and in the man-
ner provided by law."
Now, I will have an amendment for you
which will probably say exactly the same
thing, and legitimize this thing that we
are talking about. But let me go on and tell
you that by the very recommendation No. C,
the report says the right to information
extends to the legislative, executive and
judicial branches of government.
THE CHAIRMAN: You have one-half
minute. Delegate Kiefer.
DELEGATE KIEFER: I thought I had
twelve minutes.
THE CHAIRMAN: You are limited to
three minutes per speech.
DELEGATE KIEFER: All right. If I am
limited to three minutes, I will have to say
to you, then, that this goes far beyond what
anybody contemplates. It does very danger-
ous things, and the very nature of the
questions asked and the answers of Dele-
gate Willoner indicate to you how danger-
ous a field we are embarked upon if we put
this in the constitution.
Two of the three experts who came out
said keep the legislature out of this. I will
not read their quotes to you, but I would
like to at the appropriate time and maybe
this is the appropriate time, to offer an
amendment to this proposed section.
THE CHAIRMAN: If you have concluded
your discussion in the controlled portion of
the debate, you can offer the amendment.
Have you finished?
DELEGATE KIEFER: Well, if I have
run out of time I have finished, yes, sir.
(Laughter.)
TJIE CHAIRMAN: Is it your amendment
F?
DELEGATE KIEFER: Yes, sir.
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THE CHAIRMAN: Pages will please dis-
tribute the amendment F.
DELEGATE KIEFER: Mr. Chairman, I
do not want to be alone in this. If I have
more time I would yield to anybody who
would speak against this amendment.
THE CHAIRMAN: They will have an
opportunity. There is a period of uncon-
trolled debate. I will recognize them in due
course.
Delegate Mitchell.
DELEGATE MITCHELL: Will Chairman
Kiefer yield to a question?
DELEGATE KIEFER: Yes.
DELEGATE MITCHELL: Chairman Kie-
fer, how many members are on your Com-
mittee?
THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate Kiefer.
DELEGATE KIEFER: There are eighteen
counting Delegate James, who is a non-
voting member.
THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate Mitchell.
DELEGATE MITCHELL: As a matter of
fact, fourteen members of your committee
have signed this report, have they not?
THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate Kiefer.
DELEGATE KIEFER: Yes, but I think
some of them have been conned into it.
(Laughter.)
THE CHAIRMAN: Pages will please dis-
tribute the Amendment F.
For what purpose does Delegate Mentzer
rise ?
DELEGATE MENTZER: A parliamen-
tary inquiry.
THE CHAIRMAN: State your inquiry.
DELEGATE MENTZER: Will Delegate
Kiefer now have ten minutes as the sponsor
of the amendment to explain further?
THE CHAIRMAN: We have not been
following that procedure. Technically he
would if he insists upon it, have ten min-
utes for that purpose.
Will you please take your Amendment
No. 24 in front of you and make the correc-
tions that are necessary to be made? It is
Amendment No. 24. I am not talking about
F, now. I am talking about C. It is Amend-
ment No. 24 to Committee Recommendation
R&P-2, and on page 1 please strike out
lines 2 and 3. Strike out line 30 of section
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