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THE CHAIRMAN: The amendment is
seconded by Delegate Kirkland.
The Chair recognizes Delegate Johnson
to speak to the amendment.
DELEGATE JOHNSON: Mr. Chairman,
ladies and gentlemen of the Committee of
the Whole, personally I am not at all cer-
tain I can endorse a departure in the size
of the jury in criminal and civil cases al-
though I recognize there is a difference.
What I am concerned about is, if we are
going to the rather unusual provision of
having civil cases consisting of as little as
six members, I think that we should be very
careful so as not to put the legislature in
a position where they would be playing a
numbers game with the number of jurors.
It would seem to me that if we are going
to experiment at six we should be careful
to put in a provision so that juries in civil
cases will either be six or twelve.
I see the likelihood of experimentation in
the legislature with numbers of jurors be-
tween six and twelve, and rather than have
that, inasmuch as we are writing a con-
stitution, I think that we ought to set forth
certain guidelines. It would seem to me
that the correct constitutional language
would be to set a minimum and a maximum
without allowing for anything in between,
and I recommend that the Committee of the
Whole seriously consider this amendment
to the section so that civil juries will either
be six or twelve, as provided by law.
THE CHAIRMAN: Are there any ques-
tions of the sponsor of the amendment?
Delegate Schneider.
DELEGATE SCHNEIDER: Delegate
Johnson, I do not understand what the
magic is in six and twelve. I just cannot
understand what would be wrong with
seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, and if we
are going to leave this flexible for the legis-
lature, why not do so? Why not put in an
amendment that the legislature shall es-
tablish the size of the jury as they see fit
and maybe a maximum and minimum on it.
THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate Johnson.
DELEGATE JOHNSON: My answer to
that question is one of the reasons that I
stated, that in endorsing the amendment, I
do not think we should permit the legisla-
ture to become involved in any numbers
game. I do not think that the constitution
should be so flexible that we will be having
juries in some areas of seven and eight, in
others of ten, and in others seven. It seems
to me that we ought to set a minimum and
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a maximum and it should be one or the
other, and I am greatly concerned about the
fact that there will be juries of different
sizes. It seems to me six will take of ex-
pediency, and twelve, of course, is a tie
with tradition. I strongly believe that it
should be one or the other.
THE CHAIRMAN: Are there any other
questions of the sponsor? .
Delegate Schneider.
DELEGATE SCHNEIDER: Well, then,
do you contemplate, Delegate Johnson, that
some areas might have a jury of six and
other areas in the State might have a jury
of twelve? You said, I believe, that you
thought that you were afraid if we were to
leave it flexible we would have different
sized juries throughout the State.
THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate Johnson.
DELEGATE JOHNSON: I am not so
certain what the language of the Majority
Report would create. I believe that the
legislature would decide that certain cases
would be decided by a jury of one size
and certain cases would be decided by a
jury of another size. I think we ought to
set forth guidelines, and I think that six
or twelve should be those guidelines. I think
that the guidelines that we set forth will be
uniform and they will be used throughout
the State on a uniform basis but I do not
think there should be juries regardless of
the different kinds of cases to be six, seven,
eight, nine, ten, eleven, and twelve.
THE CHAIRMAN: Any other questions
of the sponsor of the amendment?
The Chair recognizes Delegate Kiefer.
DELEGATE KIEFER: Mr. Chairman,
ladies and gentlemen of the Committee,
when the Committee on Personal Rights
considered the matter of juries in civil
cases, we then had before us a number of
judges and trial lawyers. It was the unani-
mous opinion, except of one witness, that
we should have a unanimous civil jury
verdict. However, there was some question
as to whether it would be necessary to have
twelve jurors in every case, because there
are practical considerations, particularly in
some of the rural areas where it may be
necessary or desirable to have smaller jur-
ies. It is also possible that the Jurisdictional
amount set by the legislature as the basis
for a report to a jury trial, would place
the matter in the Jurisdictional area in
which there would be the district courts.
It is possible that there might be an op-
portunity for a jury trial in a district court
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