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DELEGATE KIEFER: It does not
change the present situation.
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding) :
Delegate Carson.
DELEGATE CARSON: One further
question in another area. I take it you have
no language whatsoever with regard to
grand jury presentment being required.
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding) :
Delegate Kiefer.
DELEGATE KIEFER: That shows up
in Recommendation No. 2, which is not be-
fore us at the moment.
DELEGATE CARSON: Thank you.
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding) :
Are there any further questions on section
5? The Chair recognizes Delegate Child.
DELEGATE CHILD: In section 5, sub-
section B, that section refers to bail for
an accused, does it not?
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding) :
Delegate Kiefer.
DELEGATE KIEFER: Yes, sir.
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding) :
Delegate Child.
DELEGATE CHILD: Now, if you will
turn over to section 8, on page 4, line 3, the
first words "excessive bail shall not be
required," that also refers to bail, does
it not?
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding) :
Delegate Kiefer.
DELEGATE KIEFER: Yes, sir, that is
true, but it is a more inclusive or encom-
passing term than that set forth in 5 (B) ;
5 (B) refers only to situations prior to
trial, and the other language refers to bail
under post-convictions as well as before
trial.
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding) :
Delegate Child.
DELEGATE CHILD: Is there anything
to prevent any statute being made under
section 8 that you could not do under this
section 5?
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding) :
The Chair recognizes Delegate Bothe. For
what purpose does she rise?
DELEGATE BOTHE: I rise perhaps on
a point of parliamentary order, perhaps to
1 answer Judge Child's question.
Judge Child has filed a minority report
dealing with this issue. The majority report
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answers differently than our Chairman just
has to the questions, or one question which
Judge Child has addressed which has been
answered.
The second part of our proposed section
5 does not deal with bail except as an in-
cidental. It deals with the subject of pre-
trial release.
I believe the report of Judge Child and
others in the minority report contends that
this section is superfluous. This Committee
will hear debate, pro and con, on that sec-
tion, and I suggest that it is improper for
Judge Child at this juncture to ask the
Chair what the Committee meant when the
subject in dispute will be up for discussion
before this group at the proper time.
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding) :
Delegate Child.
DELEGATE CHILD: I will accept that,
with the understanding that mine is a ma-
jority report, although it is filed as a mi-
nority report.
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding) :
The Chair recognizes Delegate Henderson.
DELEGATE HENDERSON: Delegate
Kiefer, was your Committee aware, in
adopting the absolute requirement of twelve
for the jury and unanimous verdict, and
requiring in civil procedure a unanimous
verdict, that there are no less than twenty-
nine states which permit variations on that
theme, either permit less than a unanimous
verdict in both civil and criminal cases, or
permit a jury of less than twelve in certain
cases?
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding) :
Delegate Kiefer.
DELEGATE KIEFER: Yes, sir, we
were aware of it.
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding) :
Are there any further questions on this
section? The Chair recognizes Delegate
Grant.
DELEGATE GRANT: I have one fur-
ther question on section 3. It is just a short
one, I think.
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding) :
Well, go ahead, Delegate Grant.
DELEGATE GRANT: In section 3,
where you speak of deprivation of life,
liberty or property, by "property" or "lib-
erty", did you intend to include licenses
and privileges granted by the State, such
as drivers' licenses?
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding) :
Delegate Kiefer.
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