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DELEGATE SHERBOW: That is what
I said, yes.
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding) :
Delegate Robie.
DELEGATE ROBIE: Thank you.
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding) :
The Chair recognizes Delegate Sickles.
DELEGATE SICKLES: Delegate Sher-
bow, with respect again to mandatory ap-
propriations for the state support of public
school systems, I do not believe that you
said we are not talking about the expenses
of the State Board of Education, that that
budget as proposed could be modified first
by the governor and the General Assembly?
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding) :
Delegate Sherbow.
DELEGATE SHERBOW: Yes. That is
not one of the mandatory provisions and I
think we so state in our memorandum.
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding):
Delegate Sickles.
DELEGATE SICKLES: One further
question.
I support the general proposition of what
we are trying to do here so that the local
school boards will know and can estimate
what amount of money is going to be avail-
able to them. Would we, though, by putting
this language which includes the words "es-
timates therefor" in it, and your interpre-
tation is that the estimates cannot be ques-
tioned at least in advance or they could be
questioned in the post-audit in the actual
history, would we create any problem pro-
viding the method of estimating? Could the
legislature not set up procedures for a uni-
form method of estimating to the extent
that this becomes an art? Are there not
percentage figures that can be used to be
put in the basic delegation?
DELEGATE SHERBOW: Let me go
back.
When you say they may not be ques-
tioned, this is not so because the estimates
are questioned. They are put through the
wringer, so to speak, by the Director of
the Budget, who does not accept the figures.
He gets his own estimates and out of it
sometimes the governor has to shake a
couple of heads together to make the figure
acceptable, so it is not one that is without
question and accepted in blanket form.
Actually under one attorney general's
opinion the Director of the Budget was
advised that he had a perfect right to ques-
tion the source of these estimates.
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The legislature has a perfect right to
enact legislation and provide the manner
by which calculations shall be made, and
they shall be binding on all the parties,
even for example, in this area of the num-
ber of pupils per county for the public
school system. This does not deprive the
legislature of that power except that the
law would go into effect on July 1st of the
following year.
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding):
Delegate Sickles.
DELEGATE SICKLES: Delegate Sher-
bow, you answered my question but raised
another one.
When you say that the estimates can be
questioned, it is just that. They can only be
questioned. As a matter of fact, neither the
governor nor the legislature could change
the estimates.
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding):
Deleii'ate Sherbow.
DELEGATE SHERBOW: As of now,
there is no great problem except in the at-
titude of two officials, the director of the
budget, and whoever the school officials
may be.
The one says "look, I have twenty-four
county superintendents, here is how they
have come up with all of their figures." The
director of the budget says "That is all
right, but look at what I have, and we
think you have overestimated it by a cer-
tain number of pupils."
Out of this comes an answer. But if the
chips are down and the director of the
school program says "look, we estimate so
many pupils and we think you are wrong",
I think when that occurs, they are going to
have to take his estimate.
There has been no great to-do about it
except in conversation because in the end
every dollar that is over-estimated goes
back to the State. It is not shifted around
into other budget appropriations or, being
available, spent. This is not so. It goes
back.
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding):
Delegate Clagett, do you still wish the
floor?
DELEGATE CLAGETT: Delegate Sher-
bow, with reference to section 6.07 where
the General Assembly may amend the
budget bill by increasing any item or re-
ducing or striking with certain exceptions,
but may not otherwise amend the budget
bill or change the estimate of revenues,
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