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DELEGATE ULR1CH: 1 notice through
the record that you did vote for consumer
protection. You also passed on the natural
resources, I gather you are quite incon-
sistent.
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding) :
Delegate Dukes.
DELEGATE DUKES: I did not pass on
natural resources. I was not here on the
day of natural resources. Had I been here
on the day of natural resources I would
have voted against it. I voted in favor of
consumer protection because natural re-
sources had passed and I thought if we are
going to conserve the trees of this State I
think we ought to conserve the people. If
I were consistent on this point I would
agree with you. That is the very item I
was talking about a few minutes ago.
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding) :
The Chair recognizes Delegate Weidemeyer.
n ELEC; AT E WE in K MEYER: Mr.
Dukes, isn't it true that in 1867 when the
prohibition against lottery grants was put
into the Constitution, at that time we did
not have Article 16, referendum provision
on acts of the legislature, and that the
referendum provisions were not put in ex-
cept as when they were added by Chapter
673 bv acts of 1914 ratified to November 2,
1915?'
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding):
Delegate Dukes.
DELEGATE DUKES: Delegate Weide-
meyer. I do not know the answer to that,
but since you are on my side I am going to assume the answer is yes.
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding):
Delegate Weidemeyer.
DELEGATE WEIDEMEYER: And if
the legislature in the old days abused its
privilege and the people did not have the
right of referendum until 1915, then there
might have been some reason for putting
in prohibition at that time, isn't it true?
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding-):
Delegate Dukes.
DELEGATE DUKES: I would concur
with that observation.
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding-):
The Chair recognizes Delegate Armor.
DELEGATE ARMOR: Delegate Dukes,
your clippings were effective in showing
one side of the picture, would you happen
to have a couple of little clippings maybe
that would tell us something about the
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lottery in New York State, the recently
instituted lottery where the revenue esti-
mates have fallen flat on their face and
therefore they are not raising the money
and their budget is slightly out of balance
by some millions of dollars?
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding) :
Delegate Dukes.
DELEGATE DUKES: I do not have any
such little clippings. If you would have
them I would be happy to read them. All 1
recall about New York was that Mr. Clar-
ence Miles, who I believe is still in the
gallery, appeared before our Committee
at the hearing on lottery. Mr. Miles is
the Chairman of the Governor's Commis-
sion on Gambling, I do not know the name,
but essentially it is a body that is studying
this problem at this time. He discussed
with us New Hampshire, he discussed with
us New York. He advised that during the
first month the lottery in New York col-
lected about $5 million. I think he also told
us that a $10 ticket was only sold in hanks
and savings and New York and everyone
in New York thought that was silly and
that they were going to reconstruct the
lottery as to the same kind of thing that
Mr. Landau was talking about in Israel.
It was his opinion that this matter
should not be treated in the constitution
and it was his testimony before our Com-
mittee that it should be left out of the
constitution.
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding-) :
The Chair recognizes Delegate Koss.
DELEGATE KOSS: Delegate Dukes, in
your acquiescence with Delegate Weide-
meyer's statement, would it not also be
true though that if this ban were elimi-
nated and the General Assembly did see lit
to enact a state lottery because it were a
revenue measure it would not be subject
to referendum?
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding) :
Delegate Dukes.
DELEGATE DUKES: Judge Sherbow
said in his testimony that it was not a tax.
The whole theory of concern with the local
governments was that this particular mat-
ter would be possible within their power
until it was restricted because it was not
a revenue matter.
DELEGATE J. CLARK (presiding) :
Delegate Sherbow.
DELEGATE SHERBOW: What I said
was that if the political subdivisions were
involved, they could provide because where
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