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Proceedings and Debates of the 1967 Constitutional Convention
Volume 104, Volume 1, Debates 1467   View pdf image (33K)
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[Nov. 30] DEBATES 1467

what is going to happen. It does not say
how it is going to take place. It merely
says you are going to have all these powers
allocated and prescribed among the twenty
departments. How they get there is taken
up in the next section.

This gives you two procedures. One, by
law, namely an act of the procedure and
then an act which has the force and effect
of law but which is not law. Then one of
these two things will meet the reorganiza-
tional problem which you are defining in
4.18.

THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate Morgan.

DELEGATE MORGAN: Would your
problem be solved, Delegate Case, if in 4.18
we struck out "by law" and inserted "by
the General Assembly"?

THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate Case.

DELEGATE CASE: No. I am not speak-
ing to policy because I did not serve on
your Committee and I did not hear all this
debate.

It would seem to me if you did that, then
you would be restricting the governor in
his power to bring in an executive order,
you see, so I do not think you have to say
in section 4.18 how it is going to be done.

I think you just have to say there that
it is going to be done. Then, in section
4.19, you come to how it is going to be
done and you have your two procedures
spelled out.

It seems to me that that would be per-
.fectly consistent.

THE CHAIRMAN: May the Chair make
a suggestion as to this matter since it is
obvious we will not finish consideration of
the article by the luncheon recess and
since your Committee is going to meet at
any rate at that time, can you give con-
sideration to that, Delegate Morgan?

DELEGATE MORGAN: Very well, Mr.
Chairman.

THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate James.

DELEGATE JAMES: Mr. Chairman,
we have two things here and I think that
we ought to recognize them. First, you
have the programs which the State adopts
and these are defined by law and 4.18 is
designed to obtain the programming of the
law within the General Assembly. The
4.19 is designed to apply to organization
only and certainly if you take the word
"by law" out of 4.18, you are giving the
governor the power to change the pro-

grams of the State; the substantive law
will go far beyond any organizational
power and it would be a grievous blunder to
take the law out of 4.18. It would expand
the power of the governor over the depart-
ments to include every program in the state
regardless of whether or not it is under
the guise of reorganizing the executive
department to make it a more efficient op-
erating department. This would be a de-
struction of the whole concept.

THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate Case.

DELEGATE CASE: I point out to Sen-
ator James that he bases this on the words
"functions, powers and duties of the execu-
tive offices", and then in 4.18, the exact
same words as in 4.19, "functions, powers
and duties". When you come to line 34,
where these changes, meaning functions,
powers and duties, are going to be changed
in some way, the governor is given the
right to do it. I am not arguing for or
against it, all I am saying is that the way
these sections are drafted it would give
the governor the right to do this. As I
understand it was interpreted by Delegate
Morgan, he could do it by procedures which
would not be law but which would have
the effect of law. The governor would have
the right to change the functions, powers
and duties of the department.

THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate James.

DELEGATE JAMES: Section 4.18 rec-
ognizes that the legislature retains the
power to control the programs of the State;
now under 4.19 the administration of these
programs could be handled by the reor-
ganization process. At least, that is the
intention of the Committee and when you
repeat these words, you do not mean that
the programs will be changed, but the ad-
ministration of the program can be
changed under the reorganization power.

THE CHAIRMAN: The words used are
in line 32, in which it says "assignment of
functions," I take it?

DELEGATE JAMES: Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate Hanson.

DELEGATE HANSON: Mr. Chairman,
I am not exactly sure where we are in all
of this, but I would agree with Delegate
Case that the removal of the words "by
law" in 4.18 would place a constitutional
mandate upon the legislature or upon the
governor that this is the manner in which
the functions of the departments must be
allocated in the minimum number of de-
partments which must be created and



 

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Proceedings and Debates of the 1967 Constitutional Convention
Volume 104, Volume 1, Debates 1467   View pdf image (33K)
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