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For what purpose does Delegate Gleason
rise?
DELEGATE GLEASON: Mr. Chair-
man, I would like to enter into this dialogue
which you have embarked on, because I do
not want any misconstruction going
throughout the Committee of the Whole
with respect to how intently the Committee
entered into this area about the effect of
the legality of a bill as to each of these
sentences.
It seems to me that you are in an arena
of court interpretation here and this is
something that the Committee on the Legis-
lative Branch did not enter into, and so I
would hope that the Chairman in response
to your inquiries would state that we did
not have the Court of Appeals decisions
before us. Certainly, however, when we got
into such things as the transcription of the
debates, we intended that there be a tran-
scription of the debates kept and that it
should be furnished to the public, period.
We got no further than that. If a tran-
script is not kept, and if a bill is passed
without a transcript, and if somebody goes
into court and challenges that bill on that
basis, that becomes a court matter in my
judgment, not a matter of legislative his-
tory with respect to the constitution on
this floor.
THE CHAIRMAN: The Chair's earlier
questions might have, therefore, been mis-
leading because they were general and the
answer was very general. It was for that
reason that it caused me some concern. I
will obtain a copy of the opinion of the
Court of Appeals to which I referred and
let you have it, Delegate Gallagher, before
the dinner recess.
Are there any further questions of the
Committee Chairman?
Delegate Storm?
DELEGATE STORM: Mr. Chairman, is
the Committee itself going to give serious
consideration to this whole section?
THE CHAIRMAN: My suggestion is
that I will make the opinion available to
Delegate Gallagher at the dinner recess,
and he may be able to give the kind of
answer that Delegate Gleason is talking
about, and thereby end any further dis-
cussion of the problem.
DELEGATE GALLAGHER: Mr. Chair-
man, I would like to state that the Com-
mittee never considered what it would like
to see in the way of consequences for the
failure to follow these provisions. Cer-
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tainly this does not have an intent to do
mayhem to the legislature.
THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate Sherbow.
DELEGATE SHERBOW: May I ask
Delegate Gallagher this question: would
you believe that not following the journal
properly would invalidate a $50 million
school bond issue, but it did? The Clerk
pulled down Senate bill number so and so
instead of House bill number so and so, and
the poor judge in the lower court said
"Well, that could not be that important",
but the Court of Appeals said "Oh, yes it
was", and that is the case that the Chair-
man is referring to, so the effect that Dele-
gate Gleason is talking about could be as
catastrophic as it was in that particular
case. The effect of what you are putting in
here may mean that it has not only to be
carried out, but that if you do not carry
it out all the legislation on that day may
not be valid.
THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate Gallagher.
DELEGATE GALLAGHER: My Com-
mittee is not a group of homicidal maniacs,
but at the same time it would like to see
certain disclosure facilities made available
to the public.
THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate Sherbow.
DELEGATE SHERBOW: I am with you
on that part, but the part that bothers me
is to make sure that the effect if some
clerk does not carry it out is not as bad
as it was those days when the Senate did
not have the results carefully worked out.
THE CHAIRMAN: Are there any fur-
ther questions of the Committee Chairman?
Delegate Grant.
DELEGATE GRANT: Delegate Gal-
lagher, was section 3.09, drafted by the
Committee in light of the decisions by the
Committee of the Whole as to the ap-
pointive nature of the judicial offices and
also the fact that many of their terms, et
cetera, would be prescribed by rule instead
of by law?
THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate Gallagher.
DELEGATE GALLAGHER: I cannot
say that we gave any special consideration
to the judiciary at all in this.
THE CHAIRMAN: Delegate Grant.
DELEGATE GRANT: It would be my
interpretation, then, since judges are ap-
pointed and not elected, that if there were
anything done in the way of a judicial
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